Divine Magic Revamp (Version 1.4)

[Jopper13]

Here we will be discussing the changes to divine magic in the upcoming Version 1.4 of the rule book. In version 1.3, we saw a huge increase in power for divine magic. After a season to test this out and also after four years of seeing how divine magic is used, the Staff and Heralds have agreed that Divine Magic in our game is a bit overpowered and needs to be balanced.

GOAL:
To revamp the Divine Magic rules so that the usefulness of a cleric is retained but is more balanced, so that clerics do not become so useful that healers and support trade skills become irrelevant.

AREAS OF FOCUS:
1) Rejuvenate - This spell allows hits to be brought back, and is rather cheap when it comes to mana costs and usefulness.

2) Regenerate - This spell allows casters to completely heal treated wounds, bypassing any need to rest or see a healer. Combined with the new Divine Aid, this has created a very powerful environment where being wounded is no longer a major concern.

3) Revivie - This spell takes someone from Dying to Mortally wounded, allowing someone who is on the brink of death to be brought back and then they can be treated/healed/etc. When combined with First Aid and Divine Aid and Regenerate, this has created a very quick "get you back into the fight at full health" kind of environment.

Please post your ideas both for or against the revamp so we can discuss and finalize what changes will be coming to Divine Magic in version 1.4. Our goal isn't to "nerf" Divine Magic, just balance it, and bring it back to the useful tool it used to be instead of an overpowered "revolving combat" system in the game.

Thank you everyone in advance for discussing this and helping us with ideas!

[shanaaber]

Just off the top of the head, Maybe Healers and other trades need to be tinkered as well so they are more useful in more situations as well. Right now you need X supplies and Y area to work in order for trades to be useful maybe toning down the supply list they need to do there trade so they can do it on the fly. One of the problems is that they are not as mobile as a Divine healer. I am alittle tired of it being the Divine magics fault that other trades arent being used. Maybe look at why Divine magic is being use more then the trade then let blame magic.

1) right now I dont use it cause it seems pointless. I can give someone back there hit point but if there arms or legs dont work or there bleeding out I need that mana to fix that more. I only have X amount of mana and when its gone, I either need a potion or mediation time and if its a game where we are constantly moving or in heavy fighting meditation is out and Getting our hands on potions is still on the more difficult side. When prioritizing what to spend my mana on rejuvenate falls to the bottom of the list.

2)I dont know where that idea that it no longer a major concern comes from. Again when 8 or 9 people come back injured and only have one or two people with the power to regenerate wounds and right now the cost to do so is sky high. IF a divine caster has to treat those wound as well as heal them they are lucky if they can heal one person with there store of mana before being out.

3) Its not a quick up on your feet by standard math you have made it impossible for a standard lvl 3 divine to bring someone from death to full healed and that is assuming only one wound which is mortal and often time is not... it takes more then 12 mana. Revive is three, treat it is 4, and to heal the mortal is another 6. that is 13. we only get 4 mana per level of divine and last I look 4x3 is 12. You cant assume that everyone will have Mana Reserves.

Other thoughts Quick thoughts: Take away the rest time from the Healer manual make it so its just like Divine, or add rest times to divine again dont like cause again if we are in a combat style game or a caravan style game we dont always have the luxury of sitting still for 20 minutes or more and people will quite playing the game if we are forced to have to leave people behind or constantly doing party wipes.

IT would help to figure out how to balance thing if we knew what people found so imbalancing about it.

Shana

[shanaaber]

In the Poll. We really need a Yes, but it could use Tinkering and a No but it could use Tinkering answers. Cuase No I dont find to be overpowering but yes it could use some tinkering as I dont think its necessarily balanced..

[Jopper13]

Copied and pasted from a message from Jake Bollig about this topic.

hi so i thought about it and i figure to fix the problem with cleric being to powerful. 1. you didn't like how you could have 2 clerics with one healing and one meditating and then transfuring all their mana to the other to
so they can keep on healing i figure you make two changes if a player uses mana transfur to give anouther player you have it set that if you give any amount over 5 they are fatigued for one minute and one exstra minute for every
+5 they spend (say ashely gives me 26 mana in a mana transfur she would be fatigued for 6 minutes) i think this would fix the pocket cleric problem the 2. change i would make would be eather double the time or mana cost but only
make that to the healing spells like hits, and wounds. you could change it to say that i am healing ryans a hit point he lost one and i go to heal it with the changed cost it would now cost me two mana for one hit or make it
so i try to heal it and it takes two minits to heal it but only one mana or you could make it so it costs both. i would like it to just double the time it takes but if you spend double the mana it cuts the time in half.
i think this makes it more fair but dosnt actualy take anything away from what we can do

So far from my personal experience, the ability for Divine magic to overcome the ill effects of wounds and dying is too powerful. We have been monitoring this heavily this year but it has been on the radar for a while. In the version 1.3.1 update of the rules, the power was increased but it did open up some new combos. Jake's angle looks at this not so much as just the divine magic but how other skills can modify it and create new situations.

Shana, you have some great input for us to consider but your idea that we have to look at the base spells and mana costs (the amount of mana a cleric with no mana reserves has) is both correct and incorrect... it is correct because we have to see what a base divine spellcaster can do, but we also must look at what a decked out spellcaster can do.

If something is balanced at the base level it has a chance to become overpowered when upgraded.
If something is balanced at the upgraded level it has a chance to become too difficult for the base level casters.

Also, a caster that only has ranks in magic but not mana will reflect exactly this; their aptitude for manipulating spells is high, but their ability to control mana or store it is very low... meaning that while their spells may be powerful, their ability to cast is very limited as they run out of mana. Similar to how a warrior can branch out into multiple combat skills to be well rounded or pump exp into Toughness to be able to last the fight. There are lots of ways to branch out your characters focus and skills.

I have no objection to clerics being powerful, but I have objections to clerics being powerful and being unbalanced... I don't want to see divine magic nerfed so bad it is not usable but in a world were magic is NOT supposed to be the end-all-be-all the current systems we have for arcane and divine magic make it a staple in everyday life. To some degree I am ok with this, but I've been paying attention to how magic influences both the game and combat for almost 4 years now. We are close, but some tweaks are due.

These are some of my proposed changes to primarily Divine Magic but also tweaks to magic in general.

1) This is more of a version 1.4 change but I'll throw it in here, but the 3 level magic system exp prices will be modified slightly. Instead of 5/10/15 I believe we are going to a 10/10/10 system, making it still cost 30 exp to max out magic of one school but it also makes buying into it more expensive for cross-classing. We have seen a good string of new players/characters taking magic "just cause" and really, being able to cast magic should be a difficult or intensive process.

2) Regenerate could change to one of three systems...

Idea #1: Regenerate times match Healer times, giving the spell the ability to heal wounds but matching the aid and rest times of a healer. This would slow down the use of the spell quite a bit, but still keep the full functionality of the divine spells.

Idea #2: This one is by far my favorite, but the Regenerate spell could change to no longer heal treated wounds, but it would instead allow a divine caster to downgrade a treated mortal wound to a treated light wound. The "healing" quality of the spell would still take place, but instead of removing wounds altogether it would alleviate the horrible effects of a mortal wound. The treated wounds would still be there (thus requiring attention of a healer) but it would make it easier to tend to them and players with the wounds would get their limbs back to walk, fight, etc.

Idea #3: We keep the system similar to what we have now, but add in a random element... a coin flip. Say you cast Regen on someone's treated arm wound. You spend the mana, apply the beads, and then you have to focus on each wound. After 1 minute, flip a coin... heads you win, the healing takes place. Tails you lose, the healing takes longer and another minute is added. This continues until you give up or heal the wounds. So instead of knowing it will take 1 minute to regen the wound, it would take at least 1 minute plus an unknown number of minutes. Light wounds could require 1 successful flip to heal, Mortal wounds could require 2 successful flips. I did a system like this in another game (the airsoft military simulation events that I do) and the mechanic was used as a "crash card". You had to flip to see if the patient was Stabile or if they Crashed. If they crashed, you needed to do mock CPR or zap them with a defib prop and then flip the card again... you kept going until they finally stabilized or you gave up. It added a bit of intensity to it and was fun.

3) Protection should change to a second level spell, or be modified so that the Protection spell can be cast on yourself at Level 1, then to others at Level 2. It wouldn't change much, but it would require someone to be a bit more devoted to their divine studies in order to protect others with blessings. This would modify the spell to Protection (1 bead only on self), Improved Protection (1 bead on self or others), and Greater Protection (2 beads on self).

4) Cleanse will probably change to 1 minute PER CLEANSE RATING instead of just 1 minute. This was discussed with the last update, but we forgot to finalize it and bring it in... or potentially 1 minute for every 2 mana or something. Balancing needs to be checked.

5) Similar to cleanse, Rejuvanate will probably change to 1 minute PER HIT BEING RECOVERED. Example, cast 3 mana and hover hands for 3 minutes, 3 hits come back. That, or potentially make it 2 mana per hit but it comes back in 1 minute... or an option to do either. I am in favor of 1 mana per hit per minute thing option, or just reword it so that it is 1 mana and recovers 1 hit after a minute... then it is up to the player to cast it multiple times or not.

6) Change revive to be much more costly for mana and/or time, as 3 mana and 1 minute is WAY underpowered to bring someone back from Dying. Dying should be just that... you are dying, you are at deaths door and well on your way to full death and a cleric is able to bring you back from it. Due to Revive + First Aid/Divine Aid or Revive + Rage combos, it needs to be a heftier price. Ideas... Revive is more mana and more time, similar to that of a Healer, or it is cheap and quick but it exhausts the cleric afterwards for a certain amount of time. This is also a great spell where we can use the coin flip/crash card mechanic... cast Revive, after the minute, flip the coin... heads, they are brought back. Tails, they are still dying. I think the variable time would make for an intense moment.

7) Stabilize should change to 1 minute of role play... I honestly am not sure how I convince anyone 15 seconds was a good idea, but it is way too short. Possibly a modified version of the spell to allow more mana for an instant stabilize?

8) Tweak Flare to be cast at night, but require white glowsticks. Tweak Divine Wrath to require white glowsticks in hand.

9) Greater rules enforcement of Divine Aid, as to date I have only seen 1 player with the correct ribbons to actually do this spell.

10) Possibly branch Mana Transfer into Mana Transfer (50% of mana transfers to recipient) and Greater Mana Transfer (100% transfers to recipient). I commend the "meditating syndar super charger" idea from Old World this year, the players got creative with the use of this and I thought it was great... it just very easily allowed a VERY poweful "mana battery" to be created. This effect isn't unrealistic given how we do "chain spells" and rituals, but it shouldn't be quite as easy as it is at the moment. A possible recharge or exhaustion timer could be added, but I think requiring 1 minute for every 5 mana to be transfered is fair and doesn't kill this effect too much. We will need to crunch some numbers on this.

11) Possibly a new look at Divine casting and how it is done... Arcane magic is going to require cyphers and fun stuff to learn to "do" magic, divine will be the same... but since they are so different, what can we do? Well, Divine magic is about channeling mana into a manifestation of the faith of your diety, so we may be going to a system that requires a certain number of chants/prayers/holy sayings in order to be cast. I have personally witnessed a lot of "silent casting" taking place for Divine magic, and although it is not against the rules it does not fit the role play that I would expect from something like this. Other games have a "word minimum" for spells, requiring players to incant a phrase or saying that is X number of words long. I'd like to find a happy medium that shows more role play, as clerics call down their dieties favors.

These are all the ideas I have had so far... feel free to post any replies or ideas, expansions or whatever on these. I really like the "coin flip" mechanic and think it would be a great addition to a number of spells that is easy to implement... we could call them focus coins and style them after each school of magic, and they represent your casting ability to focus magical energies to reach a desired effect. What are your thoughts?

[Kitsu]

Trying to make it obvious that I'm commenting on things by... You know... Commenting. Starting with Ryan's first post without reading his second one, which I'll respond to later when I'm not so rushed as to not really have time to read the mass of text.

1.) Rejuvenate: My feelings are much like Shanna's. I'm more field medic than ought else. Healing the HP isn't useful if they're going to just turn around and loose it immediately due to bleeding.

2.) Given the limited amount of game time why is a quick turnaround bad? In the end it's heavily limited by how much Mana we have, and the length of time restoring Mana takes.

3.) If you have a caster who thinks enough of you to think that getting you back into combat enough to use that much of a very limited commodity like Mana then you're serving some special purpose in that fight, or things are desperate for the group that's out there. It's not like there isn't a limit on how many people that can be done for mid combat. Mana is EXTREMELY limited. Count on that to close the revolving door rather than nerfing the clerics. Just because we CAN return a person to combat without a rest doesn't mean we have the resources for it.

I'll read Ryan's big post later and get a response on to that. I have skimmed parts of it, and let me say this: Cleric skills are expensive. Particularly compared to combat skills. Being a proficient cleric is done so at the cost of things like survival skills. I still say that in Ryan's second post, #2 idea 3 is terrible. A spell should NEVER be able to have no effect when cast correctly because of the rarity of our resources. Including TIME, which is also an in game resource. Every time a healing fails, that's TIME that 2 players spend accomplishing nothing. And that's no fun for anybody except people who enjoys killing other players and shouldn't be allowed to play a game in public.

As for #11: I make a point of prayers. Typically in line with the amount of casting time I need to spend.

I disagree that the coin flip is a useful mechanic. Personally, I would think it's a difficult to do without it looking stupid and breaking immersion. It reminds me greatly of the whole "Rock-paper-scissors" method some games use to resolve things. Coins don't even make any sense for the ulven at all, because currency is something outside of their realm of experience until recently.
Also: Flipping a coin is not a simple task when you're me. I have terrible eyes and a Stigmatism. This means I have very poor depth perception. Catching something thrown within arms reach of me (where my depth perception doesn't work properly) is actually very difficult.

[Jopper13]

I would like to expand on my "coin flip" idea from previous.

Casting a Divine Rune
We don't necessarily have to do a coin flip. It could be a small dice roll, it could be a coin-ish thing, etc but we could refer to it as a Divine Rune or Holy Symbol. The idea behind it is that it adds a random element to the timing of things, which can help balance out the spells as well. Instead of nerfing a spell and making it less potent, if the timing becomes variable then that changes it entirely. A spell taking "2 Minutes" becomes more difficult if it takes "At least 2 minutes" with the random element thrown into the lot.

As for the coin flip being non-ulven, imagine finding a flat smooth stone and etching a healing or divine rune into one side of it. You help a player, casting your mana and performing a spell on them. After X minutes, you "consult your rune" to see if your diety's favor has been bestowed upon the target. You take your flat rune rock and "cast" it onto the ground by flipping it through the air.
- If it shows the rune, your diety has answered your prayers and has embedded the effect on the target. The spell is successful.
- If it does not show the rune, your diety has not yet answered your prayers and it requires you to continue to pray and seek their favor. It does not require more mana, just more time for your prayer to be heard. After another minute of prayer, you will consult the rune again to see what it says. Continue until the spell is complete or the caster stops the prayer and gives up.

So that is how, in a role played way, a player can perform a coin flip to see if a mechanic works. I personally love this idea because it A) Allows for some more role played effects B) can be spun in an IC fashion that is justifiable and C) gives us a way to tone down some powerful spells without nerfing their functionality.

We could then open up some functionality, some new options, for casters... see below.
- Perhaps holy symbols or special items can be created by Weavers or bought that allow you to "cast" your divine rune if it fails, giving you two chances at success every time instead of one.
- Some disease or poisons could make divine magic difficult, and instead of negating divine magic's influence entirely they could be "stubborn" and require you to flip twice and succeed on both. Again, it allows us options instead of just saying "Divine Magic won't work" we can easily say "Divine magic probably won't work.
- Chain casting, which we refer to in stories and lore, can become a real option as casters can work together to allow more "casts" of their divine runes for favor, making spells more potent in dire situations.

Arcane and Divine Magic Revamp
Ideas like this, the divine rune or holy symbol, are part of a process that I would like to see coming to the game which is an expansion of how we handle our magic system. Magic is amazing, we are literally weaving raw mana into powerful spells that can tear things apart or put people back together... the knowledge of doing so should be unique and require multiple things.

For example, Divine Magic is literally a caster praying to their dieties, expending some of their store mana in an effort to open a conduit between their blessings and themselves or their target. You are literally sending a message out to your god and waiting for a response. I would like to see this angle expanded more by variable times (we can't even guarantee we get text messages in a timely fashion, let alone an answer to a divine prayer from an omnipotent being) and with more loud and audible prayers. This not only helps balance spells and enhances role play, but also allows players to get more into their character and understand the process of divine magic.

For my second example, Arcane magic is going to become more technical. Instead of praying to your god, you are weaving mana together into a complex pattern to produce a specific result. I connect raw mana A to conduit B, come back around to fuse raw mana C to the receptor stream D (or whatever) and viola, I blast you with energy and shatter your shield. We have already begun this process by writing up cyphers that players will need to decode and understand in order to Cross Class into magic, and a smaller version of this will be require for all arcane magic... it will just be MUCH easier for players who are of the Mage Class, as they have theoretically spent a good chunk of their time/life studying arcane magic.

Yes, these steps will require more of the players but the end result is worth it... it allows players to develop their character stories and is a fun way to learn how these things actually work in the game. Other skills, such as trades and combat skills, will also begin to see a larger shift in training and understanding before you can take them... it is an daunting task for the staff of the game, but the overall quality it will bring is worth it.

I hope this kind of explains some of our shifts in the magic system and feel free to post more ideas. I know this thread is about Divine Magic specifically, but understanding the larger goal with magic may help put a few things in perspective.

[singkofer]

From Ashlee N.

A quick response to your proposals. I could go into further depth, but I feel this gets my point across.


1) I fully agree.
2) System 2
Mainly because I've done a lot of night time casting and flipping a coin in little to no light isn't an option for me. I'm blinder than most people at night due to a light sensitivity.
I need a certain light level for my eyes to adjust properly. I have a hard enough time as it is getting the right color beads out at night. Also they would be easy to lose and that's another thing we are required to lug around.
3) Agree. Sounds great.
4) Yes, but maybe clarify it more? I'm not sure how because things change in game and what not, but every time I've been handed a card that says cleanse I've had to go find a herald for clarification.
5) I like 1 mana and 1 min per hit point, but either would work.
6)As for revive. I think fatiguing would work best. You literally pulled them from death. There should be some physical aspect. Doctors are weak after surgeries. It takes a lot out of someone when you're
shot calling someone's life. You have to think about the stress it would take to magically concentrate, heal, and bring someone back.
7)One minute works. As for instant stabilize maybe up the cost one or 2. if up only one fatigue the cleric.
8)Thank you. Please.
9)Ashlee has ribbons. just not the cleric level in new hope (yet). I used them at Old World. I know because I stole them from Dan. Sorry Dan. Also a lot a cleric users get this heal spell and the other one confused.
10) Branching just seems like it'd just be another thing I have to spend xp on. In my opinion branching would be a waste and would keep me from taking the skill. I'd rather keep it as one skill and just
be fatigued 1 minute for every 5 mana I transfer. That way the skill still has a use in quick situations, but its not overpowering where you can get the mana battery hack to work as fast.
11) If you're going to add something I'd say a book. I wrote the spells in a book and my character carries it with her. Mainly in case people forget in game the costs and bead colors.Already we have to take beads out for everything. They get tangled and messed up. I can't tell you how many times I've died at fight night due to the technicality that my beads got tangled. So please keep that in mind. I'd trade having to say healing prayers or incantations as a must when channeling (of our own choosing preferably, but yours if its a must) and be able to keep at least my silver beads around my wrists. I say this because not only is it inconvenient when I have to pull out beads to use flare (Point:Mages don't use anything when casting push) and I could have casted the spell and ran away in the time it takes me to get the beads out, but when I think of a cleric casting/healing I envision the glow from the aura coming from there hands. Not being pulled out of a pouch and then beads glowing. I see the beads as more of a representation of that glowing aura. (still make it so you have to wind the beads through fingers, just when its in the resting or non casting phase it can be wrapped around your wrist.)

[Jopper13]

Ashlee, these are great ideas... glad we are adding them to the mix. The idea has been floating around to remove the need for beads for flare, so I have some ideas for that.

[shanaaber]

I am going to be quick and not be as long winded as I want to be.

1) I am fine with that makes sense.

2) I hate the idea of a coin flip/dice roll it pulls me out of character everytime that mechanic comes up. It looks ridiculous. Hey I am casting something...let me consult something to see if it works or not. It doesnt matter if you have a in game reason to have it or pull it out. It still pull you out of the moment cuase you have to stop to consult something else. Its an added mechanic that isnt proper for a larp setting. If I wanted to roll dice or flip coins to determined if I succeed or fail I would play a table top.

3) Okay my thoughts on Revive. Revive should not be a lvl one spell. It should take a higher level of devotion and clearity to bring someone back from death. The

3) braking up the idea that protection is two tier skills is fine. It make sense to me that lvl one protects your self. Lvl 2 you can protect others we can even go so far as to say lvl three lets you double up on shields. Though I would also like that same mechanic spread to Arcane as well. Its not fair otherwise.

4) then we need to know what the cleanse rating are for things. That has been the problem I have run in the most. I am going to cleanse this corruption...I will ask how much do I need to spend and how long and I get a non committal answer of what do you think it should take. These things need clear cut answers so we as players know what it is we need to do.

5) I have no problem with. Though like its been said earlier. This need to be given a reason to use. Most of us that play clarics dont use it cuase we have a limited amount of mana and there is no point i replacing someone hit point if they are just going to run out and loose them again in less then a minute. Its a waste of mana for us.

6) Okay my thoughts on Revive. Revive should not be a lvl one spell. It should take a higher level of devotion and clearity to bring someone back from death. I really like the exhaustion I idea. You revive someone as you cant cast that spell again for 3 to 5 minutes unless you have some sort of talisman or something. I also want skills to play a factor in here as well, I am just not sure how. The fact that you have all three lvls of something is a big deal, and those of us that can channel both magic is also suppose to be a big deal. Maybe that can factor into your exhaustion time.

7) Stabalize 15 second for 30 minutes of stabilization yeah that a little out of whack. Maybe 30 seconds. Really its suppose to be the same a holding a wound so I don't know if a full minutes is necessary cause it doesn't take a full minute for someone to lay hands on people. Maybe if you want to keep 15 seconds...make it only last 15 minutes.

8 and 9) I have no issues with. Though I would like links posted somewhere where I can get glow sticks in bulk and on the cheap. If you are going to require us to have added things. I want to know where I can get them. Since normally I only see glow stick available around the 4th of July.

10) I have no comment on currently.

11) You cant force people to role play this. Religion is a very personal thing. I have never prayed out loud and I dont think I ever will. Communication with ones God is unique and up to the individual. Yes there are certain elements that need a out loud function like Rituals and Rites and blessings. Others not so much. My prayer to open up myself to heal someone is between me and my gods, the person laying on the ground is only the target of that energy. They do not need to hear my prayer, my prayer is not for them.

Also there is the factor of battle between magic users any magic user worth there salt can silent caste. Most people have set routines they have for any given spell, if you watch anyone long enough you can figure out what those routines are. Which mean you would know what they are casting before they cast it which makes it easier for you to disrupt them or change the spell your casting to counter there. Silent casting...you dont know what they are planning till it hurling at your face.

Shana

[Kitsu]

Shanna: On your #11 - Given that you taken your prayer moment and then break out some of your zillion awesome props for the casting, I suspect you'd be fine and not have anyone feel like you must have an out loud prayer. You role play your casting. I've seen some people just sit and you can see them counting time in their head and they end by telling you're good now. I think the rules should just include that some "Role-play Element" must be made, and leave interpretation of the spirit of the rules to the heralds so that they have a rules-supported means to correct people who are just casting mechanically without any sort of RP element.

I do think that certain "lines" of casters might share traditions based on who trained them (IE: Echo's taking lessons from Selena, but she's around Reyna a lot, and Reyna has certainly already taught her things in character. When she's a daughter in her own right, I suspect she would have elements of Longfang and Spiritclaw to her techniques).

Also, on finding Glow Sticks: I've had good luck finding them cheap at Dollar Trees. Year round.

[Jopper13]

To clarify Shana's put 11 and Kelly's reply to it, Kelly is correct. I envision "louder" as more of a role play element/impact more so than legitimately getting audibly louder because yes, the silent counting and no role play won't cut it.

For example, the level that both you (Kelly and Shana) have done had been fine, in my opinion.

[Jopper13]

Does anyone have any other tweaks to divine magic that they can think of to keep the magic system balanced but bring it in check a little?

I am pretty sure that we will be going to a bandage system for Divine Aid that uses the same bandage props as First Aid to keep it easy and streamline it. So instead of silver and gold ribbons, it would be clean and bloody bandages.

I think the main change I see coming is for Regenerate to be toned down so that it can convert a mortal wound into a light wound but it can't remove a light wound. I had thought about possibly allowing clerics to "tag" treated light wounds with something (maybe the gold ribbon?) so that it heals after the event. This stops clerics from being able to pump people into a fight, but still allows them a healing functionality... but it still makes sense to see a healer if you can.

Thoughts?

[Archmage Vazra]

I think what really matters is whether an individual player considers, acts, and ultimately roleplays how their magic "works".

In the Last Hope setting, there really isn't a consensus in-game as to where magic really comes from. Syndar and Ulven for example, are likely to give completely different answers if asked. I am 100% for limiting the accessibility of magic, particularly in regards to "power-gamers". Yet, in my opinion while roleplay should be expected, it should also not be micromanaged or dictated. For example, perhaps divine spell casters are required to recite something, but the nature of which is left to the individual player. (perhaps within a given set of guidelines)

For example, maybe they have the option to do ohms or an unintelligible incantation to reach their deity but keep the actual words of the prayer unheard.

I think the proposed change to regenerate (converting mortal to light instead of healing) is a solid solution. It gives divine spell casters a niche, almost like the Paramedics of Last Hope. The Healers would then be more like doctors, providing long term care and recovery. Not a fan of introducing chance though. First and foremost because the props involved (coins and dice) don't seem very immersive.

My suggestion is to additionally modify Rejuvenate to work like respite. It can heal up to one Hit and no more. This gives Divine Spell casters the ability to lend aid in battle without rendering Healers redundant or obsolete.

[shanaaber]

What about those of us that dont want to be paramedic type and be in the front lines healing? Its a nitch agreed but only for a few.

You want to do that Mortal down to light concept, I am cool with that I actually think that is an okay way to go. It will make people keep better track of how wounded they are and to where they are wounded at, I hope. We should be able to make a light wound go away though. IF we can bring people back from death and we can take down a mortal to a light it just common sense and logical that we should make a light wound go away. If we do that and there needs to be a 10 minute rest timer for each light wound we take away. This will stop people from rotating back in the fight, especially considering how badly hurt people get before they come to a cleric.

Shana

[shanaaber]

Random thought I had in the shower.

You dont want clerics to beable to remove light wound. What if we make it a skill only accessible to Healers as part of there trade skill and to Witch magic. Witch magic is suppose to be harder to get if you are human, and its not available to Syndar and while its common to Ulven we can make it so you need all 6 levels of magic in order to get it. That should thin out people who can even get it so it wont be a as common but still accessible and still give you the push towards trade skills you are looking for (since most characters will probably go toward healer then since it cheaper in the long run). It also help specialize why being able to caste both magic is big deal, especially if you started out divine.

Its a huge exp sink for anyone, not so bad if you are going healer trade but a huge sink if you are going witch magic route.

I think that will be my random thought for today.
Shana

Shana