RULES: version 1.3 to 1.4

[Jopper13]

I know that version 1.3 was a big update so it will be a while before 1.4 is incorporated, but I wanted to start a discussion about upcoming changes and ideas so that as we finalize 1.4 over the winter, we have plenty of time to discuss.

I'll provide a full list on this soon, but feel free to post your ideas for changes here for discussion.

[Jopper13]

Here are the current list of changes we are considering for Version 1.4

POTENTIAL IDEAS / THINGS WE ARE CONSIDERING
Armor Prof should go to Cross Class for Mages.

Heavy Armor Prof should go to Cross Class for Clerics.

Divine Wrath and Push should go to a glow stick requirement. Possibly add in night time use of Flare and glowsticks.

20 foot half draw for bows possibly changing to 15 feet, whatever matches more battle games rules.

Keep Stagger when struck by Cleave attack? Or change to Knockback similar to blocking a Cleave attack?

Divine Spells need to be tweaked and looked at... lots of ideas for changes to Protection, Revive, Rejuvanate, Regenerate for balancing and role play. (SEE OTHER DISCUSSION IN THE FEEDBACK & POLLS FORUM)

Verify times and mana for Meditation, possible tweaks needed.

Possibly expand Mana Transfer to 2 or 3 tiers, allowing only a percentage to transfer in the beginning but eventually making it a 1:1 transfer. Should also either take longer, exhaust the helper, etc.

Possibly add in a 0 exp skill Faction Member, required to be taken by a PC to join a faction.

Possible Javelin update... only tip hits? Only tip hits but upgrades to a thrown cleave attack?

Take a look at Resources again, see if there is a better way to do this system. Still clunky, confusing, etc.

Possibly add an Influence Skill, allowing the player to pull more weight in discussions and interactions, or combine with Resources and Factions to get more done... no idea how to balance/implement this?

Higher level editing of the rule book and checking for grammar, flow, layout etc.

Possibly add in a skill that allows a mage to prime a striking bolt in their off hand if they have an acid bolt primed?

CHANGES CONFIRMED THAT ARE COMING
Acid Bolt will have the same secondary effect as Shatter bolt (main effect OR does 1 damage)

Bigger clarification on Traps and Devices... possibly point to a guide?

Skill costs for Arcane Magic and Divine Magic will go to 10/10/10 instead of 5/10/15.

Clarify "friendly fire"... arrows, spells, and weapons still count if they hit your buddies.

Clarification on exotic eyes and prosthetics for humans in race section. (Normal human ranges)

Add clause about no cameras to be used without owner approval. Add in multimedia agreement to rulebook.

Add clause that running into a spear tip does damage as if struck by a spear.

Clarify rules for nocks up/out of quivers.

Divine Spell: Regenerate, revamp + armor needs to be removed.

Crossbows will go to a no-fire rule the same distance as the halfdraw rule.

---

Please post ideas for us to consider or feedback on any of these points so we can discuss before the roll out of the version 1.4 rules.

Thanks!

[Jopper13]

The timeframe I am hoping to get feedback on this for would be throughout the winter, with the new rules rolling oit in February or March 1st.

The more we discuss early the more time we have to test, consider, and implement.

Thanks!

[stanrick]

My thought on javilins, only the tip should do damage, is not up graded to a cleave. Maybe dose the same damage as a arrow?

[Jopper13]

I really like the "tip only" rule for javelin because it encourages more control in the throw, but it is easier to stop/hit a javelin out of the air... so during playtest it made it less useful but it did not nerf it entirely.

We could test the arrow damage idea, but so far general opinion is that it over powers have likes too much. During obe playtest, that change made them very lethal. The idea came up of making them do cleave damage; hit to the shield damages it, or it knocks back/staggers a target. It makes it a bit stronger but not overpowering. At least that was the idea... perhaps we can play test it a bit more.

[blueruby]

I would love to give this a shot at practice this week, as it will be one of the last ones for the year

[Kitsu]

On the subject of Faction having an XP cost: Please don't. The game has made factions important to how the game functions but aside from friends in game, they offer no player benefit that I can attribute to faction membership. Giving it an XP cost seems like punishing players by requiring a difficult to earn resource to be part of one of the game's cliques. What is the concern on that front for putting in the requirement? If it's people joining the game with the sole intent of bulking up a group's membership, perhaps putting a certain amount of time on the individual before they start counting towards group attendance instead of the XP cost.

More comments later.

[Jopper13]

The comment has been made multiple times from a lot of people that factions are currently "old benefit, no cost" so this was one way of making players think about their membership to a faction or to remain individual. I haven't been able to narrow down an idea that works yet.

[Jopper13]

Updated!

Here are the current list of changes we are considering for Version 1.4

POTENTIAL IDEAS / THINGS WE ARE CONSIDERING
Armor Prof should go to Cross Class for Mages.

Heavy Armor Prof should go to Cross Class for Clerics.

Divine Wrath and Push should go to a glow stick requirement. Possibly add in night time use of Flare and glowsticks.

20 foot half draw for bows possibly changing to 15 feet, whatever matches more battle games rules.

Keep Stagger when struck by Cleave attack? Or change to Knockback similar to blocking a Cleave attack?

Divine Spells need to be tweaked and looked at... lots of ideas for changes to Protection, Revive, Rejuvanate, Regenerate for balancing and role play. (SEE OTHER DISCUSSION IN THE FEEDBACK & POLLS FORUM)

Verify times and mana for Meditation, possible tweaks needed.

Possibly expand Mana Transfer to 2 or 3 tiers, allowing only a percentage to transfer in the beginning but eventually making it a 1:1 transfer. Should also either take longer, exhaust the helper, etc.

Possibly add in a 0 exp skill Faction Member, required to be taken by a PC to join a faction.

Possible Javelin update... only tip hits? Only tip hits but upgrades to a thrown cleave attack?

Take a look at Resources again, see if there is a better way to do this system. Still clunky, confusing, etc.

Possibly add an Influence Skill, allowing the player to pull more weight in discussions and interactions, or combine with Resources and Factions to get more done... no idea how to balance/implement this?

Higher level editing of the rule book and checking for grammar, flow, layout etc.

Possibly add in a skill that allows a mage to prime a striking bolt in their off hand if they have an acid bolt primed? Or a Push? Possibly a skill that allows this?

Possibly make a slight tweak to Armor rules: Heavier armor of good quality can count as layered, or at least cleaning up the wording to allow it (For example, gothic plate with gauntlets, elbow cops, knee cops, back plates, sabbatons etc could count as layered). Differentiates "Full Plate" from "Field/LARP Plate" that is common.

CHANGES CONFIRMED THAT ARE COMING
Acid Bolt will have the same secondary effect as Shatter bolt (main effect OR does 1 damage)

Bigger clarification on Traps and Devices... possibly point to a guide?

Skill costs for Arcane Magic and Divine Magic will go to 10/10/10 instead of 5/10/15.

Clarify "friendly fire"... arrows, spells, and weapons still count if they hit your buddies.

Clarification on exotic eyes and prosthetics for humans in race section. (Normal human ranges)

Add clause about no cameras to be used without owner approval. Add in multimedia agreement to rulebook.

Add clause that running into a spear tip does damage as if struck by a spear.

Clarify rules for nocks up/out of quivers.

Divine Spell: Regenerate, revamp + armor needs to be removed.

Crossbows will go to a no-fire rule the same distance as the halfdraw rule.

Clarify that you cannot cast another spell if one is currently primed.

Clarify exact wording, numbers, rulings on arrow designs and specifications

Add a clause in the rulebook that explains the "What Can I do VS Can I Do" phrase, things like trades, improv magic, rituals and stuff. It is easier for a player to ask "Can I do..." and get a ruling from a Herald than it is for a player to ask "What can I do..." and receive a vague explanation.

---

Please post ideas for us to consider or feedback on any of these points so we can discuss before the roll out of the version 1.4 rules.

Thanks!

[Archmage Vazra]

I have two small tweaks I'd like to suggest.

The first is clarification to first level magic. Level 1 Arcane and Divine both state they give you a "Starting pool of 4 Mana." leaving it unclear if, and under what circumstances you receive Mana from the skill. For example: If I already have Arcane, and then take Divine 1, do I still get the four mana? If not, what if I don't have either but I'm a Syndar or have Mana Reserves prior to taking first level magic? Would I not receive the four because it wouldn't be a "starter pool"?

My second suggestion is a clause to the push/flare spell explaining what happens when two casters use them on one another at a relatively the same time. It seems at the moment if two Mages were to duel, whichever has a looser approximation of 10 feet is at a great advantage. Perhaps state if cast within an instant of each other they either cancel one another out, or both casters are affected.

Additionally, I want to voice my agreement with Kitsu's thoughts on factions. It concerns me how new player are treated by factions, but I don't think a skill is the way to fix it. Maybe a player should need to attend a set number of events before joining a faction?

My concern is that new players are often peer pressured into joining power-gaming factions, unaware of the other options available. Worse, many of them receive a negative understanding of the game as the "win not roleplay" attitude is pushed on them by power hungry faction leaders.

[stanrick]

Drake has a good point, I like the idea of haveing a play period before you can join a faction. I know some people join up knowing what faction they want to play. But maybe we could work out that they have to NPC an event with that faction if they are makeing their first PC?

[Archmage Vazra]

Modification ("nerfing") of Mana Transfer seems unnecessary for a skill that requires players to work together and is rarely used in game. Mana Transfer is already a skill that provides no direct benefit to the player spending the XP, it seems harsh to add additional costs to the process. Besides: ratios and tiers seem clunky.

I suppose if there are serious concerns that it could be exploited you could simply cap the amount of Mana Transferred in any one minute interval. Perhaps 3 or 4 per minute?


As to Jake's suggesting: I presume the mandatory NPC time with a faction would need to be separate from the required NPC event before creating a character? (Two total,)

[stanrick]

Yes that is what I ment

[Jopper13]

Thank you, everyone. Keep the questions and ideas flowing! It really helps us narrow down tweaks and updates.

Here are a few more added ones...

- Reinforcing the rule of using rubber bands VS hair ties and other types of bands. Rules state rubber bands, and use if more fragile bands require more concentration and care so they don't break... other bands have less stretch, making small jerking motions to move the bands with little chance of breaking them easier. Needs clarification.

- Use of a shield and magic, if it is allowed and if so, how does it work. Most common idea seems to be treated it like archery, cleaving, dual wielding, etc... strap buckler only.

- Clarify what happens if you try to fight and keep a spell primed.... Can you fight and hold a spell? What happens if you do?

- Possible addition of a new magic skill, allowing you to prime a spell in your main hand and A striking bolt in the other. (Like a shatter bolt and striking bolt)

- expand details on resource skill, giving more clear examples on how to use it.

[Archmage Vazra]

-I'm really against a crackdown or ban on hair ties as mana. When you have to wear 18 or so all weekend, the rubber bands tend to turn into one pretty gross mess. You can also handle them with light gloves on, which is really helpful in the colder months when you're trying to play a mage without frostbite. They have their own disadvantages too, for instance they're generally tighter and require a bit more effort to move around. They also just seem more decorum appropriate and subtle then rubber.

-I don't have a strong opinion as far as spell casting and shields go. I don't see it as grossly overpowered or unrealistic, but I also don't think anybody would mind much if it was limited either. It doesn't appear to encumber spellcasting as it's currently been presented, but I suppose it really comes down to how intricate you stipulate the somatic components in your setting are.

-Examples for resource skills would be nice, not much input there but definite support.

-I don't see from a gameplay perspective why someone couldn't fight while holding a primed spell, sounds kind of awkward, difficult and pointless aside from parrying attacks. On the other hand, I would find it inconsistent that you could fight effectively but not move faster then a slow walk.

-I have my own suggestion for a magic skill. I've been considering for awhile: A caster could imbue a prop staff with a spell after say: a five minute ritual. They would then be able to prime that single use of the spell instantly when they needed it. The mana to cast the spell would be spent during the ritual, and the caster would be unable to recover that mana while the spell was stored. The level of the stored spell could and should be stipulated to very basic spells. (No instant death bolt). Currently it seems Mages are far better off reaching for their swords if caught anywhere alone or off guard, which I've always found to be odd from a role-played stance. Though by no means necessary, I feel like a skill like this could offer a potential alternative to players who wish to remain "Dedicated".