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Post by Jopper13 on Jul 26, 2017 13:33:11 GMT -5
July 19th Playtest Feedback 1) Rocks To The Head We will be playtesting rocks again. Rocks are soft thrown weapons, head only, and if struck they do a 10 second stun. No damage, does nothing if it hits elsewhere. Auras do protect you, but only if struck in the head (hits elsewhere in the body are considered grazes that don't activate the auras) FEEDBACK: We didn't use this much, I think only one or two people got hit with them. They seem underwhelming but they do give pause to someone who is not protecting their noggin.
2) Pierce Same as before; Small weapon only, wind up, announce pierce, hit to bypass armor. Negated by Missile Protection of heavy armor. FEEDBACK: Fell victim to this again; seems to be clean, easy to respond to, and easy enough to stop by blocking/parrying if you focus on it. I like it a lot and it continues to playtest out well. I also like how it rounds out the martial combat effects (regular, arrow, cleaving, piercing)
3) Limited/Upgrade Arrows We are going to give a new way of thinking about arrows a try. For this practice, arrows are not reusable as normal on the battlefield. Once shot, they are considered "expended". An "expended" arrow can be "inspected and fixed" by staggering and role play fixing/adjusting the arrow for 30 seconds. Arrows hit as normal, but they also will do cleave damage to shields. This makes arrows limited due to ammunition but have a greater impact on any given fight. FEEDBACK: I both loved and hated this. I hated it because it really negated shields way too easily, but I loved the fact that archers had to pick and choose their shots. I just don't think there is a good way to balance this out, so archery would remain the same. What I would like to see is a bit of slow-down period for people just scooping up arrows and shooting them... like maybe a 10 second "arrow inspection" timer for any shot arrow that is being picked up to be thrown again?
4) Modified Death Bolt In our quest to examine death bolt further, for this practice the cost of death bolt will be 7 mana instead of 8 and it will do One Light Wound to the Torso of a target and One Light Wound to the location struck. This means that an arm hit (like striking a shield) will wound the arm and the torso, but hitting someone in the chest will do a Light Wound and another Light Wound to the torso, upgrading it to a Mortal. FEEDBACK: I also liked this version of Death Bolt. This version seems easier to remember than the "whichever side was hit takes an arm and a leg wound" and also if you hit someone in the chest, it will drop them with a mortal. I also tried to stress test arcane magic so I focused on playing a syndar spell-sword. It was brutal and horribly overpowered. I teamed up with Sadie to have us focus on combined spell casting efforts. Every single fight that involved an advantage in magic was won by that side (we did a line battle of even teams and whichever team lost was able to get a 2nd arcane spellcaster to balance it out). Walking up behind the shield line, both of us drawing death bolts and dropping 2 fighters, then both of us drawing shatter bolts and destroying 2 shields and then wading into battle with our cleaving 2 handed swords and armor after that was horrendously overpowered. While yes, I do believe that most mages do not use magic like this in a fight, the fact remains that the potential is there. In another battle, I specifically dropped a fighter with a death bolt and then blew up a shield before wading into combat. I could understand keeping magic powerful if we artificially included some checks and balances (like nothing over 5 points of armor, no special weapons, etc) to force mages who want to focus on blowing up stuff in a fight to do only that... but we don't have that kind of game. Yes, a fighter who is able to cross into magic will have an advantage over non-magic fighters... but the difference is staggering.
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Post by Jopper13 on Aug 3, 2017 13:49:29 GMT -5
Sorry! I forgot to post my July 26th playtest feedback. July 26th Playtest 1) Rocks To The Head We will be playtesting rocks again. Rocks are soft thrown weapons, head only, and if struck they do a 10 second stun. No damage, does nothing if it hits elsewhere. Auras do protect you, but only if struck in the head (hits elsewhere in the body are considered grazes that don't activate the auras) FEEDBACK: Played out just fine, but I think we narrowed down the size (rocks need to be large) and the surface texture is importance. Rocks that are too rough would not be allowed. I think only one person got hit at practice by it.
2) Pierce Same as before; Small weapon only, wind up, announce pierce, hit to bypass armor. Negated by Missile Protection of heavy armor. FEEDBACK: Playtested well again.
3) Modified Death Bolt In our quest to examine death bolt further, for this practice the cost of death bolt will be 7 mana instead of 8 and it will do One Light Wound to the Torso of a target and One Light Wound to the location struck. This means that an arm hit (like striking a shield) will wound the arm and the torso, but hitting someone in the chest will do a Light Wound and another Light Wound to the torso, upgrading it to a Mortal. FEEDBACK: This played out well again, even if I think only one person was hit by Death Bolt. Impact was heavy, but not too devastating.
5) Expanded Weaver Auras We will try a playtest where players can use a “skill slot” during practice to use Resource Weaver to apply 1-2 auras on themselves before a battle. We will have red and green as normal, but we will add in black for anti-death bolt. FEEDBACK: I LOVED the expanded Weaver Auras. We let people take "Resources:Weaver" to begin the game with 2 auras (Gold, Green, Red, or Black) of their choice. This forced mages to really change up their tactics when entering a fight with people with auras. I love this counter to spells.
6) Defined Fizzle We will play this practice assuming that knockback, stagger, and shooting spells primed in a hand with arrows will fizzle primed spells. FEEDBACK: Straightforward enough, but I don't think it came into play really at all.
And here is also the final playtest feedback from August 2nd. August 2nd Playtest 1) Bolt Static Damage Playtest static damage on Shatter (3 mana, 4 Shield dmg), Acid (4 mana, 10 Armor dmg), and Death Bolt (8 mana, 6 Hit Point Damage) FEEDBACK: I LOVE this and I am huge advocate for static damage with spells. Having spells "Blow up a shield, Melt all of armor, or drop an opponent *MOST* of the time with rare exceptions" felt really good. This allows people to endure magic a bit more but nothing outright negates magic. This also really places emphasis on hitpoints for a warrior/fighter based character instead of just relying on armor, and makes things like Pierce attacks more concerning and using Pull Arrow too frequently more costly. This also made Death Bolt technically more damaging as it drops your Hits AND can give you wounds, but really tough fighters might not be dropped by it. But having a mortal and losing all your hits is pretty devastating to a new fighter, but having a veteran fighter get back up and stumble away with a wound on their own or having a veteran Ulven fighter stand back up without a wound feels right to me. A scene plays out in my mind of an Ulven warrior taking a huge blast of magic and threatening to drop, but instead stands back up and says "If that is the best you can do, you're in trouble" even though they are pretty messed up feels fun and epic to me. If mages get the fun/epic "Take this!" and drops someone with a death bolt, having a slight chance of having the reverse fun/epic "I will! And I will keep going!" feels right to me.
2) Spears Can Pierce Allow spears with 2 handles to use the new "Pierce" ability; Wind up, announce Pierce, then attack. (Along with small weapons) FEEDBACK: We tried it, but honestly it never got used. I tried to use it and it felt weird doing a long range spear attack with an audible. Cleave always feels right to me, even using daggers to Pierce felt right to me, but doing it with a spear felt weird. It was probably the newness of it, but I think that the benefit of what spears are is good enough. This feels more like "What extra stuff *COULD* we add to combat" instead of "What balancing/things do we NEED to change in combat". Piercing with Spears feels like the Pilum rule in our... neat but not necessary, and probably not worth adding to our game.
3) Rocks To The Head Rocks again; hit to head = 10 second stun. Soft foam only. FEEDBACK: Saw this play out twice at practice. One person was bonked on the head and stumbled around during a fight and another person was bonked on the head, stumbled around and during that time an archer lined up a shot and hit them with an arrow in the back. I do enjoy the thought of having something safe that can target the head, but I am still not sure if it should be a stun or a point of damage due to stun leading to combos.
4) Expanded Weaver Auras We are going to do reduced mana/timing costs, and adding black aura for anti-death Bolt. FEEDBACK: Again, loved it... but stressing that this is easy enough to make a viable option but hard enough to not make everyone running around with auras is a good idea. A balancing point is crucial. I do, however, like the idea of introducing a Purple Spell Bolt that is a "Dispel Bolt" that could drop the auras being worn by a target, no other effects. So if a mage sees someone with auras, they have a tool to dispel that magic instead of there being nothing but the appropriate spell to defeat the aura. For example, a fighter with a black aura VS death bolt is realistically never going to be targeted by a mage with death bolt because the ability to make them vulnerable to death bolt requiring them to first be hit by a death bolt means that unless a mage spends 8 mana and hits with a death bolt, that aura is permanently on the target. Having a lower cost spell that could be used to drain auras seems right to me. It adds a lot more tactical options for both fighters going into a battle against mages and mages going up against shielded/buffed opponents.
5) Everything does Knockback We are removing all instances of Stagger from combat effects (cleaving, bolts, etc) and having it do a 5 foot knockback instead. FEEDBACK: This playtested well even though people forget to do it because they are so used to the previous rules. I like it because I think streamlining our combat is very important, but it felt like too much of a change. One idea that came to mind that I really like is to change it so that "Bolts stagger you, cleaving knocks you back" and we simplify it that way. That means a parried Cleave or being hit for a Cleave knocks you back, but bolts will cause you to stagger. Then the line is clearly "Got hit with a bolt? Stagger. Parried a cleave or it hit your body? 5 Foot knockback"
6) Improved Two Handed Injured Swings We are going to try playtesting a change to Improved Two Handed, which is where it allows you to cleave with smaller weapons and you may also cleave with a wounded limb or torso as long as you go immediately back to looking wounded after each attack and you must stagger after every attack. This is NOT replaced by knockback (see above) because you are not being hit with a combat effect, you are willingly doing the stagger. FEEDBACK: I LOVED this and it playtested really well. Allowing a cleaver to do a role played painful attack cleave that staggers them after the swing felt really good. Cleavers weren't immediately nerfed by death bolts and arrows (disabled limbs) and since we already allow mages to cast mana "through the pain" so they are not nerfed by single wounds, this felt like a great reason to take Improved Two Handed. The skill would change to "Improved Two Handed allows you to cleave with a smaller weapon AND to do a cleave attack with a wounded limb or torso as long as you role play pain, immediately go back to showing the wound, and stagger after the attack".
7) Intentional Arrows to the Hand We are trying a modified archery clause where archers can intentionally target hands and are the only weapon system in the game that allows it. FEEDBACK: This playtested well; I specifically saw one instance where a fighter was tucked behind a shield real well with only their face and their hand exposed. The archer aimed at their hand and put an arrow into it, wounded the fighter. I like it and the specific call out that arrows can target hands intentionally makes sense. This also means that each illegal target zones (Head and Hands) have a counter if it is not covered. Not protecting your noggin with a helm? Then a rock can dome you in the head. Not protecting your hand and floating it out from behind your shield? Then an archer can put an arrow through your palm and wound you. I like it.
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Post by Calvin Daniels on Aug 3, 2017 14:50:01 GMT -5
Maybe the rock should do a point of damage straight to hit if they're not wearing a helm, but if you are, then it's armor damage. A little bit like the locational armor, I guess, but it's just for rocks.
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blueruby
Order of Starkhaven
Plot Staff
Captain Anne Cash
Posts: 924
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Post by blueruby on Aug 3, 2017 20:17:32 GMT -5
I do like the static damage for Death Bolt, though I still prefer the two light wounds (one to the torso and one to the location struck). That, to me, feels like a better way to resolve the issue I personally have with Death Bolt, that it will instantly remove a player from the combat experience through a Mortal Wound. The static damage does give the target the ability to withstand the attack without taking a mortal wound, but does require a very hefty XP sink to do so, whereas the two light wounds will leave anyone in a bad position but still able to make a choice on how they want to continue to tell their story: Stay and fight and possibly get cut down, try to hobble away, surrender, etc. I would be interested in peoples' thoughts on the static damage death bolt doing 5 hits of damage, but only requiring 6 mana. This would allow a stacked character of any race to be able to withstand the spell without a wound, but would almost certainly eliminate all hits and would still cripple those who haven't trained their body to take that much abuse.
I don't see rocks as being an issue with the stun effect. Yes, that can lead to combos, but how many head shots have actually been lined up during the several weeks we have playtested this effect? I've gotten one, and not from lack of trying. Wearing a helmet, ducking, blocking, or parrying negates the effect of the rock, which to me means that a well-placed shot should be rewarded with a substantial effect. A point of damage simply doesn't feel like enough.
I don't like knockback for everything, but the "cleave knocks back, spells stagger" idea appeals to me. It would effectively eliminate the ability to cleave-lock someone into the ground by continuously staggering them. It also alleviates the pressure of remembering three different mechanics in a fight with someone swinging a greatsword at you, which should help combat flow more smoothly.
I really like the idea of allowing cleaves with an arm or a torso wound. If mages can push through that pain, why can't a warrior? The stagger makes it a costly choice in a melee situation, but gives the cleaver options in how to proceed. Would there still be a skill to allow you to cleave with a smaller weapon? I know I've used that pretty extensively as Brynja (when my shield breaks or I simply drop it to break a shield) and like the ability to do so.
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Post by ClypeumLegis on Aug 3, 2017 20:37:09 GMT -5
As I understand it the original effect of Improved Cleave would still apply, so you could still cleave with a smaller weapon. The ability to cleave while wounded is an additional perk added to it.
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Post by Jopper13 on Aug 4, 2017 7:54:18 GMT -5
I would be interested in peoples' thoughts on the static damage death bolt doing 5 hits of damage, but only requiring 6 mana. This would allow a stacked character of any race to be able to withstand the spell without a wound, but would almost certainly eliminate all hits and would still cripple those who haven't trained their body to take that much abuse. Ooh, I like that a ton. It is actually a nice balance compromise; makes death bolt less devastating but less ridiculously expensive. If we go with static damage on a death bolt, I like this option the most. Would there still be a skill to allow you to cleave with a smaller weapon? I believe the answer is that Two Handed Weapons skill allows you to cleave with a Great Weapon and Long Axe/Mace, Improved Two Handed allows you to also cleave with a Medium or Long weapon AND it lets you "push through the pain" to cleave with when wounded in exchange for a Stagger effect after each swing.
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Post by Basil Gavras on Aug 4, 2017 8:23:44 GMT -5
I'm a fan of removing stagger completely as anything that causes a person to drop their head to waist level during combat I don't like. And it's one less effect to remember. However, keeping it as spells stagger I think would be fine.
I'd be for doing away with rocks. They're low percentage hits, and kind of goofy, and just add another thing to remember. I'd be for having them in special scenarios, but I can't see myself walking through the swamp chucking rocks at Mordok. Plus then it's another missile to return.
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